On Aon — Episode 92
Title: The Longevity Shift: Rethinking Aging in the Modern Workplace
In the latest episode of Better Being, we examine longevity and how it is becoming an important topic for businesses.
Susan Fanning, Aon’s Head of Wellbeing for Asia-Pacific, and Professor Andrea Maier from the National University of Singapore examine how, as people live longer healthier lives, businesses can foster a diverse and dynamic workplace by harnessing the expertise of older employees.
Key Takeaways:
Experts in this episode:
Key moments:
(2:15) Some of our lifestyle habits are so poor that they will have a detrimental effect on our health and lifespans.
(8:00) Rather than insisting on an abrupt end to a working life, it’s better for employers and employees to have a gradual “step-down” process.
(14:55) A switch in careers every 20 years or so will open people up to experiences of different topics, different workforces and different ways of working.
Additional Resources:
3 Strategies to Improve Career Outcomes for Older Employees
Soundbites:
Prof Andrea Maier:
“So I would say it's not only a medical revolution, but it's societal revolution. And there was also a cultural revolution we are changing.”
Susan Fanning:
So, as we're seeing in terms of healthspans and lifespans increase, we're also starting to see that retirement systems as well as healthcare systems are coming under pressure.
Intro:
Hello and welcome to this episode of Better Being, where we explore the ideas and insights behind wellbeing. In this episode, we delve into how we can extend our lifespans and our health spans with a leading voice in the field of longevity, Professor Andrea Maier from the National University of Singapore.
Professor Maier shares her insights from over 20 years of study with Susan Fanning, Head of Wellbeing for Asia at Aon. Together, they unpack how understanding and changing our behaviors and attitudes can lead to longer life spans and what that means for employers and communities around the world.
Susan Fanning (00:40)
Hello and welcome to the Better Being series from On Aon. My name is Susan Fanning and I'm the head of wellbeing for Aon in Asia Pacific. In today's episode, we'll be looking at the topic of longevity and the increasingly important role it's playing in workplace wellbeing. You can't open a newspaper or click on a website these days without seeing hundreds of articles on how to extend and improve our lifespans. Some of it's genuine, some of it promotes disinformation.
But what we're here to look at is what does longevity mean for an employer and can business leaders think differently about the issue? With me today to discuss the issues surrounding longevity, and I'm delighted to have her, is Professor Andrea Maier, who is speaking with us today from the National University of Singapore.
Andrea's research focuses on understanding the aging process and finding ways to measure and intervene in biological aging in humans. Over the last 20 years, she has conducted multiple international studies and trials, opened healthy longevity clinics, and has published more than 490 peer-reviewed articles on the subject. I hope to read them all someday.
She founded the Healthy Longevity Medicine Society and is shaping the field with worldwide networks such as the Biomarkers of Aging Consortium and the Academy of Health and Lifespan Research. It's great to have you here with us today, Andrea.
Andrea Maier (02:03)
Thank you so much, Sveta. Hopefully you have time to read them,
Susan Fanning (02:09)
I hope so. And maybe you can give some recommendations as to in what order to read them as well.
But you’ve spent decades studying the biology of aging. So from your perspective, what's the biggest misconception people have about longevity? And what should we be focusing on?
Andrea Maier (02:14)
That's a very broad and big question, of course. I always think that people think that aging equals decline, and that's absolutely not true. In reality, yes, most of us are declining during the life course. However, most of our biology of aging and our aging process we have in our own hands, and we know that out of twin studies, for example.
But I would like to add a second one, if that's...okay, a misconception. Very often we think that we are just increasing in our life expectancy. And that's just a given. And I think at this moment in time, we observe that this is not a given because there are a couple of countries where the life expectancy is not increasing anymore and even declining. Like in the U.S.
The increase of the number of months and the number of weekends we are receiving is not a given because our lifestyle habits are sometimes so poor that we will have detrimental effects with regards to life extension.
Susan Fanning (03:38)
And so that is a scary thought. And I think in terms of that, when we think about that, we also see that, so yes, in some countries, lifespan is decreasing, but we're also seeing that children born today can live to 110 and beyond. So what does that mean for how do we think about healthspan versus lifespan? Because living for a long time is great, but only if you're able to be active to make the most of that.
So if we focus on healthspan, which again is something that is often poorly understood, how should we think about healthspan and how should individuals and systems prepare to improve their lifespan?
Andrea Maier (04:21)
First of all, is a difference between healthspan and lifespan. Hopefully everybody knows their own chronological age and that very often determines also the likelihood how long you're going to live. But now we know better because we also have the biological age and there was also determining the healthspan we have. And the healthspan is the number of years you have in good health. And that's what we want to achieve. So there's really a change of thinking not about lifespan, but about healthspan.
There are 165 definitions of health span at this moment in time. So if we are talking about health span, we really have to define it. And in my definition, it's really the absence of age-related diseases, which are defined in medical books. We think about COPD, stroke, hypertension, even dyslipidemia in my view. So really marking the edge where somebody should actually take medication and then the sickspan starts.
We have at the moment with the definition we are using in Singapore, but this is being used around the globe very frequently, a definition where we are looking at function. If somebody is unable to live alone, etc., they always have activities of daily living limitations, which means you cannot go to the bathroom yourself, to the groceries, etc. If we are using that definition, then it's roughly 10 years’ gap between the health span and the lifespan.
So, I think nobody signs up for a 10-year dependency situation. So, we are not signing up for disease, and we are not signing up most of the time for functional decline and for dependency. The challenge now is how do we close the gap? If we are using my definition in terms of the first chronic disease, which occurs roughly at the age of 45 in populations, then we either have 40 years of sickspan or with the other definition we have 10. So it's huge. It's huge. And it's also in the lifetime where we are working, etc., we want to enjoy joy life. So, the challenge now really is to close the gap by comprising, so the compression of the morbidity we face.
Susan Fanning (06:39)
And so, as we compress that, that also starts to impact on people's ability to, in terms of, continue to perform well in the workplace. And so, when we think about aging as something that can be modified and something that, in terms of entering or in terms of developing our first chronic condition at 45, is not a given. It is within our hands. How can we, and in terms of how can employers think about what do they do for in terms of older workers?
And in Singapore, I'm always horrified that senior workers is defined as somebody who's over 50. And as somebody who has recently turned 50, in terms of it horrifies me even more. But how can in terms of aging process be seen as something that is of a benefit to employers, where they get to benefit on the experience and the resilience of older workers?
Andrea Maier (07:37)
Yeah, it's a difficult question because many countries, including Singapore, the population are facing ageism. So you already see that you turned 50, it seems, and now you are older or old. And of course, this should not happen — 50% of the Singaporeans have the feeling of ageism. So they feel neglected and they feel discriminated because of their age.
And by the way, that's not per se older people feeling it, but also younger people feeling it. The proportion is nearly the same. So the ones in between roughly at the age of 30, 40 are the best at not feeling that age might be a factor in decision-making. But aside of that, I think employers play a very big role because we are facing during our lifetime lots of hours being in our job. So, employers should absolutely play a role.
First of all, would say choose a step-down career and not an abrupt career. So if we are talking first about the end of our working life, very often we say, okay, this is your last working day and this is it. And I think that's very old fashioned. It is when in the European countries where I'm coming from 65 or 63, even or 58, if you're living in France, that's the number where you can say goodbye.
We know from many studies that if you're happy as a worker that you are living longer because you have that day rhythm, because somebody is being used, etc. So somebody really feels that contributing to the workforce. So being in the workforce is very important. However, I think we should account for the biological age while determining what kind of roles a workforce should do.
And what is a biological age? A biological age can be quite different from the chronological age. So the chronological age is your age at this moment in time. And the biological age can be three to five years younger or older, even more. It really determines the pace of aging, the rate of aging, and how old not only you feel, but your body really is and how much damage that body actually accumulated.
Which means you might be equipped to do one task but not the other, or more equipped to do another task and not the other. Unluckily, at the moment, we don't have employers who actually look at the biological age to determine what the workforce should do. I think very importantly is to switch from a reactive approach to a proactive approach. Very often we think about employees' health once they are sick, once the absenteeism days are increasing.
And I think asking already, okay, how do you find the job? What can you do? Can you actually manage it? Can you measure the physical, but can you also mentally do it? That's very important. And here really personalized, healthy longevity medicine kicks in. Because we have the tools already to apply, not only diagnosing what the biological age is, but sometimes very easy screening tools, but we are there to help to actually to lower the biological age of individuals.
And there is very likely giving a huge return of investment to that company, to that employer, but also to the employee to actually reduce the number of days in absenteeism and sickness, etc.
Susan Fanning (10:57)
Agreed — I think the last time I had mine done, I was eight years younger in my biological age, which I'm very proud of. So in terms of maybe I'll stop talking about my recent birthday and just focus on my biological age. as the...
Andrea Maier (11:15)
You can just ask — do you want to know my biological age?
Susan Fanning (11:18)
I shall try that. I'll let you know how that goes. So, as we're seeing in terms of healthspans and lifespans increase, we're also starting to see that retirement systems as well as healthcare systems are coming under pressure. How do we bring in personalized longevity medicine when we think about keeping people healthier in terms of keeping them working for longer and, as you say, in terms of not necessarily doing the same thing, but having some form of step-down career?
How can we think about that and what can employers do to help promote that?
Andrea Maier (11:52)
Yeah - so very often if we are talking about a worker is a little bit older, maybe also, and that's associated with costs and not because of benefits and the expertise. I think we should start thinking about a renewable resource. I think in the human resource field, we always think about, okay, how long does that employee last? And I think about the renewable resource we should think about.
So, if somebody comes in and together you would really improve not only the working structure that it fits towards the biological age of that person, but you could actually show that there is a lowering of the biological age and you would actually prevent an age-related disease and there was not having diabetes or stroke, etc., while having that investment much more in better workforce.
And there was lower the biological age but increasing the stability, the emotional stability, the wellbeing, etc. I think that's the way to go. So really rethink the roles of the employers and the employees in working together.
Susan Fanning (13:00)
Agreed. And while we all look for the quick fixes, or many of us do, they don't really exist in terms of the hard work of in terms of moving more, eating properly, managing our stress, getting enough sleep, in terms of having your community. All of that is incredibly important. And I think through that, what we see in terms of Singapore being a blue zone, we see that for longevity, it's not just about medicine.
It is about how do we think about reshaping careers and family structures and our identity. What are you seeing in cultural shifts that are moving us towards that blue zone mentality that in terms of willingness and desire from individuals to make the changes required to be able to thrive in a 100- year life? I only do small questions.
Andrea Maier (13:50)
Yeah, we don't have recipes yet, but our recipe at the moment and our thinking is that we have a three-stage model. So we educate ourselves, we are working and we are retiring. And sometimes people switch in terms of work, but not many. You are staying in your path. I think that's going to change.
First of all, the private life will also change because if we are living longer, most of the time we now have three generations with us, it will be maybe five generations. So what does that mean? How do we live? How do we live together? How do we act together? Is it still that we have meals together in the end? Because our great-grandparents will be likely alive if somebody is now listening and is young.
And it's not only that the great-grandparents will be alive but they will be very active and they might have a fifth career.
And that's happening already in a couple of countries where there are actually third-generation universities. So at the age of 50, 60, even 70 and 80, you think, okay, what can I learn? Why wouldn't I go back to the university? So, third generations actually act as the substance of an educational premise to be able to either switch in the workforce or to just increase the knowledge during the life course of an older individual who is really hungry for that.
So what we are going to do at the moment in a couple of countries already and which will only increase is really reinventing ourselves professionally, but also personally and very likely several times. So there's nothing wrong with just switching careers at the age of 40 or 45, I would say, because you still have 20 or 30 years to go.
And maybe a switch every two decades might not be bad, because then we have really the experiences of different topics, different workforces, different climates, etc. So I would say it's not only a medical revolution, but it's societal revolution. And there was also a cultural revolution we are changing. And what we, I think, have to do is also that sort of ageism, you are not allowed to change. So you already do that, you are good. Why would you actually?
And I always acknowledge the ones when I get from the HR system, the CVs, who actually switched and actually made it. And they have good arguments why they would switch.
Susan Fanning (16:19)
Agreed — and in terms of taking risks — it shouldn't be related to what age we are in terms of whether that risk is you start, and I've seen the studies on 80-year-olds who start doing powerlifting and the impacts that has. So there is no age limit to taking risks.
Andrea Maier (16:39)
But may I ask you, why would powerlifting at the age of 80 be a risk?
Susan Fanning (16:47)
Maybe that was an ageism that on my behalf when I say that. That's fresh in my mind because it was talked about at a sharing session I was at this morning where somebody was using that as an example. I've just played into my own stereotype within there. Thank you for calling me out on that.
Andrea Maier (17:08)
That's always what's happening. And of course, there might be a little bit more risk by really doing powerlifting if somebody has osteoporosis to have fractures in the end. But absolutely not. If the bone health is fine, lift, but more than the age of 80, but also at the age of 40 and 20 and 120.
Susan Fanning (17:27)
But it's also, power lifting doesn't mean that you're lifting 100 kgs. If lifting 2 kgs is good for you, terms of advanced power lifting, go for it. So, Andrea, maybe in terms of you can share with us a little bit from your own routine. In terms of, are there some top habits or some top tips that you would share with people that you think are generally overlooked and that can make a big difference?
Andrea Maier (17:52)
I won't go into everything which is already written down by the WHO, so World Health Organization, because we know we should power lift, we should do resistance exercise training and we should sleep well and we should have friends. Very often in geriatric care, we say, you should be able to walk and to talk. That's it. And what does it mean walking is you're going somewhere and talking is you have interactions and it's very likely then you also have friends. So that's most important. Walk and talk. And even if you do combine, that's even better for your brain because you are not just walking, but if you are talking, you are doing exercises with your brain while walking, there was exercising your muscular system. That's even better to train it. But we know all of that.
I think the most important habit everybody should have is know yourself. Know yourself and why would you like to be better and why would you like to be alive? So what's the reason that you are there? Because that gives you the nudge, maybe to go to the gym or to eat healthier and maybe to care about your sleep.
And knowing yourself means not only what would you like to do and what do you love, mentally, but also who are you physically? I would urge everybody to run 100 meters and really run and just time it and to see if that time is adequate, maybe for your age and how do you feel. So, knowing yourself doesn't cost so much money. So, you don't have to look into the genome per se and do lots of blood draws and deliver urine sample, etc, it's already, while either running 100 meters and just observing how you feel, or just escape the lift and go up by stairs, that already helps.
And knowing who you are and who you want to be in 20 or 30 years’ time, that's most important because that gives you the drive for good habits and what do I know myself and do myself? Yes, I know what my seconds are to run 100, which I will not disclose.
Susan Fanning (20:22)
I’ll ask you once we stop recording. And then I'll go and practice.
Andrea Maier (20:26)
It's very important that I know how much I can lift, how my gut microbiome works, and therewith I'm adapting myself. I try to sleep well and I have tried to have a social life. So knowing yourself is most important because everything else, otherwise, is just something being written on paper and does not really account for you because you don't have that relationship with that what's written and you don't know how much you can improve.
And everybody is just beautiful because we have so much reserve capacity in us. And now I say even an 80-year-old, but of course an 80-year-old has so much reserve capacity. If we are starting resistance exercise training with individuals who are very frail, we can actually rescue that individual and not having the wheelchair in the end because of the beauty of the cells inside of the body.
So every age has beauty in itself. You just have to determine what you would like to achieve and your body will make it.
Susan Fanning (21:32)
I’m not sure there's anything I can add to that. That was amazing. Thank you. That's our show for today. Thank you for listening and our thanks especially for Andrea for your amazing insights in that beautiful ending that in terms of there is something beautiful in all of us. In the next months, we'll have more episodes on human capital topics, including medical trends and online benefits. But that's it for us today. Thank you for listening.
Phillip Tutt (22:01)
Thanks for tuning into the latest episode of On Aon. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to visit Aon.com to learn more about Aon.